[Glorantha] Ancestor Worship

[tim at timellis.demon.co.uk]

Simon talks about Ancestor Worship & Daka Fal
>   
>Way back in the old RQ days, if you worshipped Daka Fal, you could not belong 
>to another cult. However, trolls could worship Kyger Litor and also worship 
>ancestors (e.g. combined worship of Kyger Litor/Mistress Sazdorf) but they 
>seemed to get their spells through Kyger Litor/Sacred Ancestors rather than 
>directly from Daka Fal.
>

I'm not sure the Trolls ever make a good comparator for this sort of thing, because their magic originates in the Underworld (where there is less differentiation between animism and theism) - besides which Kygor Litor *is* the ancestor of the Trolls (whereas most sartarites and/or Praxians do not trace their ancestory back directly to their deities.

>  
>In HeroQuest terms, I assume that ancestor worship is either a Helper 
>Practice for the main Spirit Tradition, or is gained through worship of a 
>hero/founding ancestor and uses specific feats.
>

This sounds reasonable to me. Don't the heortlings honour their ancestors who appear as an indistinct group (so it is generally "the ancestors" rather than a specific ancestor).  I'm not sure they get magic as such from them though (although they may act as some sort of wyter in certain circumstances?)

I also wonder whether ancestors might be a source of Common magic in some places - where honouring a particular ancestor grants you access to a particular talent/feat/spell/charm  for which they were known.

>   
>Now, putting the exact mechanisms aside, I have some fundamental difficulties 
>understanding why ancestor worship precludes worshipping other deities. 
>

I think, at least in part this is a "game balance" decision.  From a player perspective, choosing to worship one deity over another gives you the ability to learn certain spells but cuts you off from others.  The Ancestor Worshipper can (potentially) gain access to any spell, if they can justify an ancestor having learned it and then contact that ancestor, so to "balance" this, they can only access spells this way

For a more "in game" perspective, consider the amount of time/resource spent dealing with/honouring all your ancestors precludes devoting any appreciable amount of time to any other deity.  After all, you don't want to summon up Great Aunt Agatha at a crucial juncture, only to receive a lecture about how you only ever think of her when you want something, and if you can't have the common decency to help her out on occasion well, you'll just have to wait.  What's that? If she doesn't help you now, you might die?  Well, maybe that will teach you better manners in future!    

>
>Imagine a Yelmic family, who can proudly trace their descent back to Yelm 
>himself. If one of them decided to worship his ancestors, he could not 
>worship Yelm, so his sons would lose their Yelmic status. 
>

That's the problem with these hide-bound, status-conscious cultures...

>
>So, they would have Yelmic ancestors but be cut off from Yelm themselves. 
>This seems very odd indeed. The same situation occurs when looking at Lunars 
>descended from the Red Goddess and when anyone is descended from a mighty 
>hero or god. They cannot participate in both ancestor worship and the cult of 
>their particular ancestor.
>

I think there is a distinction to be drawn between worshipping a deity who is also an ancestor, and worshipping your ancestors in general, one of whom might be a deity.   Moonson and Great Sister worship the Red Goddess, who is their mother, but the "mechanism" they use is "the cult of the Red Moon" rather than "Ancestor Worship" 

Those who can trace their ancestry back to a deity will probably have a more influential role in the cult (eg a priest or high priest)
 
>
>Another question is about the ancestors themselves. 
><snip>   
>Perhaps we should call it "Extended Family Worship" rather than Ancestor 
>Worship.
>

I'd agree with this - I'd assume an "ancestor worshipper" could worship anyone who was part of their bloodline (including those adopted into (or married into) it, although they may prove harder to contact.  The general rule might be that if you could expect support from this personm if alive then you can expect support form them as an ancestor? 
   
>
>Finally, although ultimately all ancestor worship derives from Daka Fal,
>

I think that assertion is a bit "godlearner"-ish.  All Praxian ancestor worship derives from Daka Fal, but since the Orlanthi are generally theisits rather than spiritists, they are unlikely to be Daka Fal worshippers at all 

>
>how important is Daka Fal to ancestor worshippers generally? Prax has Daka 
>Fal worshippers, but also worshippers of Grandfather Morokanth and 
>Grandfather Baboon. 
>

On a purely mechanical basis these are probably (all but) equivalent to Daka Fal.  In the case of the Morokanth the mythology of "Grandfather Morokanth" may be (almost) interchangable with Daka Fal - they will share a lot of myth with the other Praxian Tribes, albeit with a slightly different slant.

>
>Duke Raus is said to be an ancestor worshipper, but does House Rone have 
>links to Daka Fal? 
>

I doubt it very much, although Praxian Daka Fal worshippers may recognise that Raus is using some stange foreign rites to worship DF. (My theory is that Raus was made an Ancestor worshipper in order to make him "acceptable" to PC's who were Praxian, Orlanthi, Yalmalian or Pavisites which might not have been true if he were, for instance to be a Seven Mothers worshipper (the only published "lunar" cult at the time.  It also allowed him to provide spirits capable of teaching whatever magic might be required (as per the mercenary contract)).

>
>What about trolls, they worship their clan ancestors, Mistress Sazdorf and so 
>on, but do they particularly care about Daka Fal?
>

Probably not, as outlined above.  That said, the Trolls who live in the Rubble will almost certainly be aware of him.