[Glorantha] Re: Animal sizes and sailing

[Joerg Baumgartner]

Mikko Rintasaari <rintasaa at mail.student.oulu.fi>

>> Where I live they have a herd of highlands around the corner and a herd
>> of bisons 4 km away, and the size difference between bulls from either
>> herd is negligible. Cows are just a little bit smaller, fitting the stats
>> I quoted from Anaxial's Roster, above.

> Jesus! Where is that then?

Just south of the Kiel Canal, not that far from Suomi.


>> Early Iron Age sails were primitive, if present at all - the Anglo-Saxon
>> immigration occurred on boats like the Nydam boat, a clinker-built boat
>> for some 24 people without any sail or mast. (Still a technical
>> advancement over early Mediterranean wooden ships which were built shell
>> first, skeleton later.) Seaworthyness of Mediterranean galleys was
>> minimal, wind strengths of 6 Beaufort meant beaching or perdition.

>> Compare e.g. Wolf Pirate longboats, which are on par with 9th century
>> Viking Longships or contemporary Byzantine dromons.

> The bronze age / early iron age saw great naval battles fought out by
> serious naval powers. Persia vs. Athens, for instance. I don't see why
> those kinds of ships wouldn't be appropriate for Glorantha.

Sorry, that's Middle to Late Iron Age for that region, or rather the
Classical Period. Not at all Late Bronze Age (although that still was
current at that date where we live).


> <snip>
>> Restricting Gloranthan shipbuilding to Bronze Age or pre-Roman
>> Mediterranean technology would be count
<snip>
>> People expect multi-masted sailing
>> vessels, with rigging to climb in and fall down off durign naval
>> battles.
>> People expect ships tacking into the wind.

> Well, not me. I don't want an easy mismatch with bronze age here, high
> mediaval here and renaissance there. If I wanted to play a game that
> caters for easy clishes I'd play 7th Sea.

For Early Iron Age ships, I give you the Hjortspring Boat - a masterpiece
of woodworking, extremely well built paddling boat, but not even rowed.
About 2nd century BC Baltic Sea. Bronze Age "ships" from the region were
wooden frames covered with hide, similar in form and propulsion to the
Hjortspring boat.


> I'll keep to cataphracts,

That's Early Middle Ages or at least Dark Age to me.

> celts

Iron Age irish celts, I suppose? I personally prefer the late Bronze Age
Hallstatt ones or the Iron Age La Tene Danubians (whose culture fell to
the Romans or the migration age tribes a few centuries before Rome itself
did so).

> and ships that rely on the oar when the
> wind isn't favourable.

No bulk merchant ship relied on the oar for entire legs of a journey.
Getting into the next port or at least anchorage, ok, but no distances.

My most serious concern is that Genertela lacks the equivalent of the
Mediterranean. Neliomi Sea is like North Sea or Atlantic, Homeward Ocean
at its best is like Biscaya and the Channel and at its worst like
Atlantic.

While the Mirrorsea Bay is excellent galley territory (no wave action) and
both Mournsea and Pasos Isles offer somewhat sheltered canals, both
require less mediterranean vessels at normal or bad weather.

The phoenicians managed to enter the Atlantic with their vessels and even
to get into contact with the Cornish tin trade, although I suspect that
most of the tin was carried by Celtic vessels. I may be prejudiced there,
but to me that means large coracles on frames similar to the Hjortspring
look, paddled mostly, or towed.

To some extent, the Waertagi are a parallel to the Phoenicians (although
their naval technology differs greatly). Planting coastal colonies with
the natives, they appear to live on ships except in their own coastal
cities.

This shows how historical parallels aren't parallels, though. We have to
consider the Gloranthan myths when picking a material (or, in the example
above, mercantile) culture from our history for inspiration.


I'm still curious about the Waertagi city ships, for instance. Are they
the skins and skeletons of sea dragons, reworked as giant coracles, or
simply carved as tunnels and chambers into the corpse.

Artmali yachts appear to have advanced rigging - lots of separate sails,
probably some of the sailing characteristics of say Napoleonic era
frigates or brigantines.

Helering sails probably were billowing cloudy affairs, too. Possibly even
woollen. No idea how exactly we have to imagine the hulls. (Our guess
about wooden moonboats needs to be re-evaluated as "wood-plated reed
boats" for combat zones.)