[Glorantha] Re: [HeroQuest-RPG] Theyalan Missionaries

[Greg Stafford]

Hello,

>   From: "Jamie" <anti.spam at blueyonder.co.uk>

is spot on in his analysis in [HeroQuest-RPG] Digest Number 2336.

A couple of notes to his excellent analysis.

> The method appears to be Missionaries are created in newly converted
> clans who then move out into the most similar neighbouring clans.

At this stage all of the missionaries ae from Dragon Pass, where people 
survived
intact, thanks to Heort's quest to Second Son and beyond, and the Unity 
Battle.


>   From: "Jane Williams" <janewilliams20 at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: RE: The Missionaries
>
>> > That explains why the missionaries couldn't just use
>> > normal teaching methods, simply telling them "These red
>> things taste nice,
>> > those other red things kill you".
>>
>> Trust was not something that existed in the Great Darkness.
>
> Well, no - but if you see someone eating something in front of you, and then
> they hand you some as well...? Still, you've explained why it needed magic,
> not just mundane teaching. We've dealt with that bit of the discussion.
> Trust isn't the point, not being able to learn is.
>
>> It is simply not a fair comparison to compare a modern
>> grocery store to living
>> in a hostile environment where even a small wound or small amount of
>> poison can disable a person.
>
> Only unfair if you take my remarks totally out of context like that. We were
> talking about being able to tell whether a certain fruit, already known to
> be edible, was currently ripe, when this particular type of fruit was new to
> you. In that context, it's the same skill.

However, I was questioning your assumption tht the context was the same, which
it is not.

> You're holding a fruit. You know
> it's not poisonous. Going to eat it now, or wait till tomorrow? Whether it's
> hanging on a tree or you've picked it up off the shelf is irrelevant.

But you have to know that the fruit is edible and safe, as you do in 
the store.
But these poor refugees in the Darkness did not know that the fruit was edible
or that it was safe to eat, or heck, didn't even know that it might not eat
them.

>> First of all, I never said they were brain damaged. That is your
>> interpretation.
>> Please careful about differentiating between what I said and
>> what you have inferred.
>>
>> They were not brain damaged. They were soul damaged.
>
> So what distinction are you making? Soul - a bit of a brain, not a bit of a
> finger.

and

> And again you seem to be making some invisible distinction (heck, maybe I
> need those missionaries). Change in consciousness. Healing of damage to the
> soul bit of brain. Same thing as I've been saying.

Well, sorry, not really. But this isn't the place for me to explain the
difference between soul and brain. If you don't understand that, then there is
no point in me explaining further.

But as long as your understanding suits your game, fine by me. That is what is
important.

>   From: David Dunham <david at a-sharp.com>

> To take a perhaps more materialistic view of things than Greg
> suggests: each group of survivors had retrenched, and had pretty much
> one trick that had let them survive the Darkness. If they only lived
> by eating lichen like reindeer, what would be the point of
> considering something that grew on a tree as food? It's like me
> looking at a mushroom. I happen to know that many of them are
> extremely poisonous, and I don't like the taste of those that aren't.
> Why on earth would I start thinking about eating them? Even if the
> mushroom survivors know a really simple way to tell which ones are
> edible.

Oh, I agree with all that.

> And Guy reminds me it was the Tasmanians who lost their technology (I
> wrote Patagonians, which may or may not be true).

I have read that when Europeans first encountered the Patagonians they had
nobow, no fire and no sewing, even though they lived in one of the most
miserable parts of the inhabited world.

This is another example of how necesity is not the mother of invention.

>   From: Guy Hoyle <ghoyle1 at sbcglobal.net>
> I'm not sure if I accept Greg's statement that the Hangolings (too lazy
> to look it up to see if I got it right from memory) couldn't have
> figured out these techniques as literal, or if they WOULDN'T have
> learned them on their own, but I don't think brain damage would have
> been the reason at any case. The very nature of the world changed after
> the Dawn, and it changed at different times in different places.
> Perhaps the magic that was taught the Hangolings wasn't simply revealing
> the existence of ripe fruit and other edible foodstuffs, as much as
> transforming it (or them). More on that later as I figure out what the
> hell I mean by that.

I am in agrement with Guy onall that.

========================
Sincerely,
Greg Stafford

Issaries, Inc.
2140 Shattuck Ave., PMB #2030
Berkeley, CA 94704 USA