[Glorantha] Re: Humath + Hu'Makt = Humakt...

[LC]

On December 11, 2006 07:00 am, glorantha-request at rpglist.org wrote:
> --- Graham Robinson <graham at albionsoft.com> wrote:
> > Greg quotes(1) aside, there's a lot of evidence to
> > support my theory. I'll touch on a few bits below...

I happen to agree with a lot of this. I think there certainly has been 
cross-over like this, where people discover it is the same god. We only 
really have the Storm Tribe/Thunder Rebels version in detail, and that's the 
Sartarite/Quivini version, which I am sure is not the same even throughout 
the rest of the Orlanthi peoples. 

I was flipping through my ILH-1 the other day and remembering that the whole 
run of the provinces all the way up to the Satrap of Sylila is Orlanthi more 
or less. But at the same time, these obviously would be different in numerous 
ways. First off, they are Alkoring, IIRC, and secondly, it even hints they 
have different versions of the basic Orlanthi cult we are familiar with. 

Thus the exact forms of the gods is going to be a bit different. Something 
like the Humath/Humakt thing makes sense for me. I do think that some 
influence from the West came into the Humakt cult at some time, just to give 
you that regimental feeling, which seems very non-Orlanthi to me. This has 
little to do with the essence of the God himself, and a lot to do with the 
nature of the cult. 

I'd love to see a brief outline of that Alkoring run from Tarsh up to Sylila 
before the Lunars got to them. 

Jane adds in good stuff as always:
> I agree that "Humakt" is not identical to "Death": as
> you say, he spends many myths having it stolen from
> him and trying to get it back. 

I agree with this. First off, if something like "Music" can have a common 
religion because it is a cosmic concept, then "Death" certainly is such a 
concept as well. There will be Gods of the Dead and Gods of Death (not always 
the same thing) and Spirits and Essences as well, but I doubt any one entity 
gets to be "Death" for all things everywhere. 

> But "Humakt" is 
> identified at one point as Orlanth's Sword.
> Sword-warrior is what we're looking at here. Hu-math
> would be sword-wind: no Warrior concept. And you may
> notice that there are sub-cults of Humakt that have no
> Combat affinity, odd though it may seem.

 I noticed this. Just as Lhankhor Mhy has Literacy as a core rune, but not Law 
or Truth (despite some of the myths implying he should). As I pointed out 
some time ago, Carmanian Hu'Makt has Combat and Battle and Death as 
affinities, and no Honor affinity. The description in ILH is that he is 
"Death, worshipped by the outsider and avenger".

Given the fact that even in Thunder Rebels it is mentioned that you can do 
non-traditional subcults with different aspects of Orlanth, I think you get 
this sort of cult blending more often than one might think. 

As a side note, in my games I've tended to use the HQ rulebook method where 
the gods are listed as individual entities more than as cult/subcult, and 
encouraged the players to think of it more that way as well. This also makes 
it harder for the Lunars to say who is *really* worshipping Orlanth. (Do you 
just ban everyone with wind affinities? IMG, I had it that all the ruling and 
Thunderous subcults were banned. The rest were more ad hoc.)

> Incidentally, Humakt seems to be identified with the
> North wind in particular. Where does that leave Vadrus
> and family?

Outlawed, no? 

Donald Oddy points out
> Ty Kora Tek is the psychopomp for the Earth Tribe. After all the
> funeral rites are different for men and women (TR pg.87) so a
> different psychopomp is hardly surprising.

And Issaries is the one for the men, no? It seems Humakt is a sort of 
"troubleshooting psychopomp".

> I seem to remember a myth which said Humakt was Babeester Gor's
> father which implies Ernalda's life is stronger than Humakt's
> death so Humakt could hardly be an appropriate psychopomp there.

Interesting interpretation. Of course, we don't really know what the Earth 
Tribe religion was like, do we? It only exists as a hold over in pieces 
incorporated into the Storm Tribe (mostly) and a bit in the Fire Tribe I 
think. While it was obviously powerfully female, I don't think it consisted 
of only women, and I don't think all female goddesses are earth-related. Not 
even in Glorantha, correct?

LC