[Glorantha] On Ernalda

[Greg Stafford]

> From: Rob Helm <parental_unit_2 at yahoo.com>

> "I never said his departure made her sleep. That was a thread of 
> speculation by others. It is incorrect."
>
>  OK, in explaining why Ernalda went to sleep, the Q&A said:
>
> As is well known, [Ernalda] is the wife and helpmate of the great
> Storm God, ...The two are inseparable, and could not exist without each
> other any more than men and women could exist without each other.

>  I interpreted that to mean: Ernalda went to sleep because of her  
> relationship with Orlanth. Based on some discussions off-list, people 
>  better-informed than me also arrived at that interpretation.

That is why I wrote the Q&A: to clarify this point.
It appears the other people off-list were not any better informed than 
you were.

>  "So I will be more clear: It is obvious that the Lunars also messed 
> with Orlanth."

Which ought to have said “Ernalda” where it says Orlanth.

>  Just to make sure that I get it right this time: The Lunars targeted 
>  _both_ Ernalda and Orlanth with their rituals. They did not just 
> "kill"  Orlanth knowing that doing so would send Ernalda to sleep.

That is correct.

>  This isn't just a theoretical question, by the way. As a narrator in 
>  Heortland, I'd probably want to toss in some generally ominous hints 
> of  what's coming. What the players would see depends on whether the 
> Lunars  are just targeting Orlanth, or targeting Ernalda and Orlanth. 
> Players  might see strange midnight processions of women in the 
> latter case, for  instance.

As you wish. YGWV.

> (Donald R. Oddy)
carries on a discussion with Peter M.

ON ORLANTHI MARRIAGE
> In message Peter  Metcalfe writes:
>
>> Yet you are certain that the custom of arranged marriage exists in
>> the myth of Umath and Asrelia (which follows on from the "Birth of
>> Umath" that I cited) even though the custom of arranged marriage
>> is nowhere mentioned there?
>
> No, I'm suggesting that as part of a coherent explanation of a
> series of events.

Umath and Asrelia did not have an arranged marriage.
It was a matter of “destiny” in that story, they were “made for each other”
And at last, to end happily, their children fulfill that destiny.

>>> and there is certainly nothing to suggest that "the great sky" and
>>> "the fertile earth" were married.
>>
>> Intercourse without marriage?  What would the Emperor do?
>
> Shocking isn't it? In the Green Age it was probably normal but far
> too disorderly for the Golden Age especially when the result was
> gods like Umath.

Of course, intercourse without marriage was the norm in the unconscious,
id-infused Green Age.

>> We know that the Sartarites have seven different types of
>> marriage ranging from the Husband and Wife to the Love-Wife
>> Marriage (KoS p243).  In "How Peace was Made", Ernalda
>> consents to become Orlanth's love-wife.  How the other
>> marriage forms were developed is at present not known

Most of these were first done by Orlanth and Ernalda as their relationship
developed and changed.

MORE ON THE REBIRTH OF LIFE, and Role of Ernalda

>> She didn't have something to do, she couldn't return even if she
>> wanted to.  She's dead and described in hell as "a sorry and
>> broken slave" KoS p87
>
> Another case of taking Orlanth's viewpoint as the authoritive one.
> We know myths vary between viewpoints and if we take Orlanth's
> view of Ernalda as described in KoS she appears as nothing more
> than the wife who bears him children and causes him problems
> with her demands. I'm looking at the Ernaldan viewpoint in an
> attempt to discover what her myths are - what makes her Queen
> Ernalda.

She is not Queen because she does what her husband does.
There is no equivalent of the LBQ for Ernalda. Not even in Esrolia.

> Orlanth is powerful enough to free himself from the underworld
> and return from the dead in spite of having no life powers
> whatsoever.

Of course he has life powers. He is the fertile rain, the Father, etc. 
It is not
his primary power when set in contrast to  Ernalda, of course. He 
provokes life,
she IS life.
The major difference is that he voluntarily undergoes the voyage into the Land
of Death with his life powers intact.

> Ernalda who is intimately associated with the life
> rune just sits around waiting to be rescued. How plausable is
> that?

Entirely plausible. 100%. This is a universal archetype.
Ernalda and Orlanth are polarized harmonious powers. This means that one is
male, the other is female; one is active, one is passive. Ernalda is passive.
Orlanth is active.

>> Given that the Esrolian culture was formed in the Great Darkness
>> and formed by rejecting the traditions of the Storm Tribe, their
>> myths are comparatively late (as late or later than the Vingkotlings).
>> As a result, I'm not convinced then that Ernaldan myths of Esrolia
>> can be used in recover the mythology of the original Ernalda.

The Esrolian myths of Ernalda are the same as the Heortling myths of Ernalda.
They are the same entity, their cultures were united before the Sword and Helm
War, and contiguous afterwards.

The Esrolians did not reject everything the had previously. They rejected the
rule of the men. As Peter said, with one key element added for clarification:

> Probably the key difference is that in Sartar [the people believe] 
> Ernalda for
> the most part trusts Orlanth to rule with her influence whereas
> in Esrolia [the people believe] she doesn't.

========================
Sincerely,
Greg Stafford

Issaries, Inc.
2140 Shattuck Ave., PMB #2030
Berkeley, CA 94704 USA