[Glorantha] Ernalda

[Donald R. Oddy]

In message <5.0.2.1.2.20051227130329.02e38810 at pop.qsi.net.nz> Peter Metcalfe writes:

>Yet you are certain that the custom of arranged marriage exists in
>the myth of Umath and Asrelia (which follows on from the "Birth of
>Umath" that I cited) even though the custom of arranged marriage
>is nowhere mentioned there?

No, I'm suggesting that as part of a coherent explanation of a
series of events.

>>and there is certainly nothing to suggest that "the great sky" and
>>"the fertile earth" were married.
>
>Intercourse without marriage?  What would the Emperor do?

Shocking isn't it? In the Green Age it was probably normal but far 
too disorderly for the Golden Age especially when the result was
gods like Umath.

>>An equally plausible view is that the Emperor created marriage in
>>response to this and similar acts so that he could regulate them.
>
>Except that it isn't the Emperor who denied the match between Umath
>and Asrelia but the Old Gods.

Who were acting like the Evil Emperor, repeating patterns here.

>> > >You are monomything here. The original myths of Orlanth and
>> > >Ernalda did not involve Yelm.
>
>>You have an alternative reason for Ernalda leaving Yelm's palace to
>>marry Orlanth? I know Orlanth would say she followed him because
>>she loved him but what was *her* reasoning?
>
>You misunderstand the nature of the objection.  You reason that
>since Ernalda left Yelm's Palace and Yelm has arranged marriages,
>the issue was arranged marriages.  But arranged marriages do not
>appear in the original myth and the issue was the Old Gods preventing
>what was meant to be.
>
>In addition to this, I note that the myth of "How Peace was Made"
>(KoS p73) has the Guards about to sell Ernalda to Troll Slavers
>before her rescue at Orlanth's hands.

A troll slaver, I wonder who that could be? Perhaps Argen Argar
who turns up elsewhere as another of Ernalda's husband/protectors.
Looks like the particular husband/protector that Orlanth saves
her from depends on the myth. I'm sure Ernalda was properly
greatful to Orlanth each time, not that she arranged the contest,
oh no of course not.

>Then I think you misunderstand the nature of the marriage.  The
>Sartarites engage in marriage with the custom of Vela the
>matchmaker who "brings together those who ought to be together"
>(TR p192).  That one's gods and kindred are involved in helping
>the couple be together does not mean that marriage goes against
>the divine pattern.
>
>Moreover the cohesive power of Vela the matchmaker is
>contrasted with the demonic power of Uleria, indicating that
>the Heortlings believe that marriage should be more than
>just physical attraction.

And then Vela makes a critical failure on her "assess boy" roll.

>>We know that the Sartarites arrange marriages, equally we know
>>the marriage of Ernalda and Orlanth was not arranged.
>
>We know that the Sartarites have seven different types of
>marriage ranging from the Husband and Wife to the Love-Wife
>Marriage (KoS p243).  In "How Peace was Made", Ernalda
>consents to become Orlanth's love-wife.  How the other
>marriage forms were developed is at present not known but I
>would be extremely surprised if they were involved the denail
>that the marriage was not meant to be.

"Meant to be" is possibly clear when you are dealing with gods 
but it's far from clear when dealing with humans. I'm sure every
Heortling parent agonises over whether the match their child
is planning is meant to be. Equally what convinces the parent
may not convince the child and visa versa. The seven different
types of marriage are probably attempts to find a solution that
everyone can find acceptable. 

>>That's why I suggest the key distinction is who has the final say.
>
>Having "final say" means very little when your veto has the
>potential to completely piss off your kin.

In which case the kin are acting as the Old Gods or the Evil Emperor
and obstructing something that is meant to be. I think Heortlings
rely much more on conditioning their daughters to select husbands
on practical grounds than attempts to veto and prescribe particular
marriages.

>She didn't have something to do, she couldn't return even if she
>wanted to.  She's dead and described in hell as "a sorry and
>broken slave" KoS p87

Another case of taking Orlanth's viewpoint as the authoritive one.
We know myths vary between viewpoints and if we take Orlanth's
view of Ernalda as described in KoS she appears as nothing more
than the wife who bears him children and causes him problems
with her demands. I'm looking at the Ernaldan viewpoint in an
attempt to discover what her myths are - what makes her Queen
Ernalda.

Orlanth is powerful enough to free himself from the underworld
and return from the dead in spite of having no life powers
whatsoever. Ernalda who is intimately associated with the life
rune just sits around waiting to be rescued. How plausable is
that?

>Given that the Esrolian culture was formed in the Great Darkness
>and formed by rejecting the traditions of the Storm Tribe, their
>myths are comparatively late (as late or later than the Vingkotlings).
>As a result, I'm not convinced then that Ernaldan myths of Esrolia
>can be used in recover the mythology of the original Ernalda.

You are assuming that the myths of the Earth tribe were lost when
Ernalda married into the Storm tribe. Given that Ty Kora Tek is a
keeper of valuables against future need it is far more likely that
even if they fell in disuse the myths were remembered. It is also
possible to HQ to before Ernalda's marriage to find them. So I
assume that they are still known but not talked about to avoid
pointless arguments - let Orlanth thinks he knows it all. Whether
these are the mythology of the original Ernalda is irrelevant just
as we don't know or care whether the Sartarite myths of Orlanth 
are his original mythology. The myths I'm looking at are those of
Ernalda today which I suspect vary very little between Sartar and
Esrolia. Probably the key difference is that in Sartar Ernalda for
the most part trusts Orlanth to rule with her influence whereas
in Esrolia she doesn't.

-- 
Donald Oddy
http://www.grove.demon.co.uk/